|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
   |
Posted - 2010.04.07 03:30:00 -
[1]
There were clearly two people with rifles there at least, and it's impossible to tell those are cameras the news agents are carrying without knowing what they are before hand. That said, they didn't appear at all hostile in their actions even after being shot at or in their mixing with clearly unarmed civilians. There was absolutely no call to shoot at the vehicle however, which simply appeared to be bystanders helping the wounded. The people from the vehicle had no apparent weapons and collecting bodies or wounded is certainly not a hostile act. It seems to me that the ROE was largely at fault here, not merely the pilots mis-judgments.
Regarding the thread title and website; when you hit the thing you actually intend to hit, it's not referred to as collateral.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
|
Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
|
Posted - 2010.04.07 04:02:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: James Tritanius
Quote:
There were clearly two people with rifles there at least
Please post a screenshot of where you have clearly seen two guys with rifles.
In the first video from 3:40 to about 4:00 the camera centers on two people who appear to be holding rifles. At least that's the call I would make in that situation. Given their general deportment and that of the people around them however I would assume that they were merely guards for all the unarmed people around them. You might also take into account that the cameras also look a lot like weapons.
But by all means please continue, your myopic assessment of the situation seems to right on the mark.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
|
Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
|
Posted - 2010.04.07 04:31:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Barakkus
My wife and I watched this tonight, we both agree the first scene was something that could have been seen as some armed insurgents that may have been involved in the engagement the apache was called in as support for.
The second scene of shooting missiles into a building while obvious civilians are walking past though, another story.
The first scene was questionable in my opinion, they certainly didn't appear to be hostile to me but who knows what conditions and ROE the choppers were operating under. Firring on the van seemed to be completely unjustified but with their blood going and the ROE they were operating under who knows what was going going through their heads. If the was a van with a red-cross or crescent on it I bet they wouldn't have fired. But it was unmarked and so they got shot for helping people, which may have been justifiable under the ROE they were operating under, who knows?
The second one you are talking about is the .gif? To me it looked like there was an operator and observer and that the civilian walked on to the scene after the all clear was given and perhaps even the missile fired. It's hard to tell but he sure seems to come out of no where when I watch it. The important part of it is edited out; when exactly does that man appear on frame (you'll notice the vid cuts in and he appears from behind the far left pole)? And who could see him when were the orders given (the text at the bottom could easily have been before or after or made up it's impossible to know)? When was the missile fired (was it already in the air when they saw the man or did the see the man and fire anyways)? None of the pertinent information is there really to make a reasonable call on what happened. That's the one to which I would apply the term collateral damage to though, given the information that is available. Very unfortunate.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
|
Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
|
Posted - 2010.04.07 23:55:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Hadrian Septim
Except it is, you can even see the trigger handguard. And the guy behind him has an AK, FYI.
Also one can't ignore that they had mere moments to try and figure out what it was he was holding. I've had plenty of leisure time to look at it and I still can't tell if its a tripod or an RPG. And I wouldn't have even considered it being a tripod except that I'm told that there were a couple of photographers down there. Given the guy behind him certainly is holding something that looks like a rifle I'd assume it too was a weapon.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
|
|
|
| |
|